上海人在北京——洪晃对话沈昌文 (有声)
在线听音频：
洪晃遇上了沈昌文：谈谈书与人，圈子与美食，聊聊上海人在北京的轶闻趣事…… ，放言无忌，皆成文章。他们首次将北京与上海两座都市的差异透明化、公开化。洪晃与沈昌文在活动现场讲述了自己内心中上海北京的差异，洪晃以一个土生土长的北京人的角度去讲述了自己眼中、印象中的上海，沈昌文作为生活在北京60多年的老上海人，从历史的角度阐述了自己的老上海、海派情节。
The two cities' subtle relationship has never been much of a faceoff, probably because the two have always been assigned different priorities.
The former is set to display China's cultural and historical charm, with little pressure on economic contributions.
The latter has always been seen as being at the forefront of internationalization, economics and creativity.
The Beijingers are famous for their carefree, sometimes idle, attitude; while Shanghaiers are seen by most Chinese as the shrewdest and most aloof bunch of human beings imaginable.
Recently, two famous Chinese publishers who have had the rare opportunity to taste the flavors of the two cities gave an interesting joint speech at a Beijing bookstore.
Yu Ping brings you a review of that speech, given by Hong Huang and Shen Changwen, which was dotted with punch lines, insightful comparisons and sparkling ideas.
One cannot discuss the difference between any two cities without comparing the food, and this joint speech, held at Beijing's Trends Lounge, was no exception.
"I was lucky. My wife doesn't eat garlic, so I can kiss her whenever I want to."
"When I was little my grandma forbade me to hang out with the kids in our neighborhood. The reason? They eat garlic! So naturally, I grew a ‘garlic complex.' I really hated to be influenced by that pretentiousness Shanghaiers have, and I really wanted to be accepted by the kind of people who eat garlic. Theirs is a different world."
Unexpectedly, a difference of opinion regarding garlic became one of the highlights of the talk.
81-year-old Shen Changwen moved to Beijing in 1950.
A man of humble breeding and with little formal education, he became in 1986 chief manager of the prestigious Sdxjoint Publishing House, a company that specializes in intellectual and academic books.
He also headed "Du Shu," or "Reading," a prominent magazine known for its highbrow tastes, for many years.
To the retired publisher, Beijing in 1950 was a massive surprise, but not necessarily a good one.
"The Beijingers, they didn't even have toilets. All the Shanghaiers dumped their bowels into toilets. How could these people live without toilets?"
That, according to Hong Huang, Editor-in-Chief of the stylish iLook Magazine, reflected the gap of urbanization between the two cities at that time.
Although she herself never spent much time living in Shanghai, her family was rooted there before moving to Beijing.
Her father, a Shanghai native who was recruited by Beijing's Yanching University in 1949, told her that the relocation was like a punishment.
"I remember him complaining to me about how far Beijing was lagging behind Shanghai. They could even see camels on the main streets. While in Shanghai their life was about drinking coffee and ballroom dancing."
But 60 years later, the differences between the two cities are no longer that big.
Although Shanghai is still proud to be introduced as a city of fashion and imported lifestyles, Hong Huang says, the Beijingers are actually more open to the new and the unknown.
"Maybe it's just because we are a little bit dumb, as the Shanghaiers claim, that we are freer in a sense, for we are not that sensitive about the rules and limitations of life. I think that explains why Beijing has an ever renewing culture."
She told the audience a story about a special editorial piece she did about Chinese fashion designers.
She was not surprised to find that all the Chinese designers had their clothes made in Shanghai, as the Shanghaiers are well known for their meticulous craftsmanship.
But much to her surprise, all the finished products were shipped to Beijing for selling, because high-end Shanghai consumers would buy expensive garments only if they bore famous foreign labels.
That, to her, is proof that Beijingers are more ready to try new things that haven't been established as classics.
Besides the Beijing natives' carefree attitude, Hong Huang says another factor that helped form Beijing's open and tolerant culture is the 1949 massive migration of elites into the city when it became the capital of China.
"The Shandong natives, people from the Northeast and Southwest, all of them came to Beijing. Their migration reshaped Beijing into the base of a pan-Chinese culture. In my opinion that's also why Beijing is still considered as the cultural center of China to this day."
But Shanghaiers' sophistication is by no means a bad trait, because sometimes a loose plan created by a bunch of carefree people can cause great, long-lasting pain.
For example, Beijing's notorious subways.
"Shanghai has a great public transportation system. I can get around Shanghai by taking the subway, but I can't do that in Beijing. The transfer between different subway lines is very convenient. We don't have that in Beijing."
And Shanghai also has a fantastic culture, or, to be exact, it used to have one.
Shen Changwen, the Shangbai-born publisher, says in pre-1949 Shanghai, reading newspapers was the center of local people's lives.
And Eileen Chang, the late Chinese writer whose works continue to influence numerous people to this day, wrote her best novels in a Shanghai apartment building.
But now, what people refer to as Shanghai culture is actually the literature scene in 1920s and 1930s Shanghai.
To get a taste of that Shanghai, Shen Changwen says, you need to go elsewhere.
"I'd rather go to a library in Taiwan if I want to do some research on the old Shanghai."
The joint speech not only focused on the differences between the two cities, but also touched upon their common ground.
Shen Changwen said one of the first common features he discovered between the two cities was a stinky surprise.
"I couldn't believe that I just found stinky fermented tofu in Beijing! And it's no less stinky than what we had in Shanghai! Till this day, I couldn't pull through a day without some of that stinky treat. The discovery of stinky tofu in Beijing marked the beginning of me settling down in Beijing."
The "settling down process" quickened after he married the Beijing-born Mrs. Shen, whom he says is a wife that's different from a typical Shanghai wife in almost all ways.
"Beijing wives won't play sweeties. My wife always wears a straight face when she reminds me to take my medications. But I know that's her way to say ‘I love you.' When I found that Beijingers are just that way, I knew that I loved Beijing."
For CRI, I'm Yu Ping.
背景简介：
洪晃：中国互动传媒集团CEO，《世界都市iLOOK》杂志主编兼出版人，亚洲著名媒体人之一。曾为《三联生活周刊》杂志撰写专栏。出版自传《我的非正常生活》和杂文集《无目的美好生活》、《廉价哲学》。
沈昌文：曾任人民出版社任副总编辑。1986年1月至1995年12月，曾任生活•读书•新知三联书店总经理兼《读书》杂志主编。着有《阁楼人语》，《知道》等。黄集伟称其为：思想经纪人。
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